I'm new here - n00b questions

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matburton
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I'm new here - n00b questions

Post by matburton » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm

Hey all, I'm new!

Can I start by saying this project looks amazing, and JonAbbott looks to be an absolute legend.

I am a bit confused about the releases, what's preserved, the formats involved and what can be done with them.

Am I right in thinking that JASPP has the rights to the released software and allows free download?
Is there a reason why dumps of the original media are not available?

If I understand correctly those releases and the JFD format are somewhat like WHDLoad for the Amiga?
i.e. the copy protection is removed, compatibility fixes are added, bug are fixed and other enhancements might be applied?
Will there ever be access to preserved originals, warts and all?

On the format front am I to understand that the APD format is sufficient to preserve both data and copy protection for all Archimedes disks?
Indeed I dumped my copy of Louts 2 using a Kryoflux and converted it to ADP which then worked Arculator while the ADF didn't seem to.

Is there any route from APD to other formats? e.g. Can an APD be translated back to RAW Kryoflux file to repair failed media? Or to HFEv3 for floppy emulators like the HxC and Gotek?

Are the APD and JFD file formats documented somewhere?

Again sorry if I'm asking dumb questions or have made any bad assumptions!

hubersn
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Re: I'm new here - n00b questions

Post by hubersn » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:02 am

matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
Are the APD and JFD file formats documented somewhere?
Look inside the ADFFS archive, !ADFFS.!Structure describes both APD and JFD.

Have fun
hubersn

JonAbbott
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Re: I'm new here - n00b questions

Post by JonAbbott » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:04 pm

matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
Can I start by saying this project looks amazing, and JonAbbott looks to be an absolute legend.
Thanks for the support.
matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
I am a bit confused about the releases, what's preserved, the formats involved and what can be done with them.
The preservation of each title is detailed on this page. Everything is archived in JFD format for use with ADFFS.
matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
Am I right in thinking that JASPP has the rights to the released software and allows free download?
The rights are detailed in the download page of each title. Essentially the current rights holders grant JASPP distribution rights.
matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
Is there a reason why dumps of the original media are not available?
The JFD files are the original dumps, they're imaged on Archimedes using ADFFS.
matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
If I understand correctly those releases and the JFD format are somewhat like WHDLoad for the Amiga?
ADFFS is possibly the RISC OS equivalent of WHDLoad. It contains a 1772 FDC emulator for APD files, a VMM for A-series emulation and an ARM3 JIT so code runs on the latest ARM instruction revisions.
matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
i.e. the copy protection is removed, compatibility fixes are added, bug are fixed and other enhancements might be applied?
Will there ever be access to preserved originals, warts and all?
JFD's are the original dumps with disc protection intact, warts and all. Some of the boot scripts contain bug fixes, where I've come across them. There's no enhancements. Compatibility comes from the VMM on ARMv5+ machines.
matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
On the format front am I to understand that the APD format is sufficient to preserve both data and copy protection for all Archimedes disks?
Yes, APD contains three dumps of the floppy in SD, DD and QD so does preserve copy protection. I don't think Fire & Ice works with APD, but everything else I've tested does.
matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
Indeed I dumped my copy of Lotus 2 using a Kryoflux and converted it to ADP which then worked Arculator while the ADF didn't seem to.
Lotus Turbo Challenge 2 has disc protection, so will not work as ADF.
matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
Is there any route from APD to other formats? e.g. Can an APD be translated back to RAW Kryoflux file to repair failed media? Or to HFEv3 for floppy emulators like the HxC and Gotek?
I'm not aware of any APD conversion tools, shouldn't be too hard to code one though.
matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
Are the APD and JFD file formats documented somewhere?
Yes, in !ADFFS.!Structure
matburton wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:40 pm
Again sorry if I'm asking dumb questions or have made any bad assumptions!
No problem, happy to answer any questions. I did write a lot longer reply this morning whilst on the train, which was promptly lost when I submitted just as I lost WiFi! Hopefully I've covered everything with the abridged answers above.

hoji
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Re: I'm new here - n00b questions

Post by hoji » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:48 pm

Echoing MattBurton, thanks - this is indeed an ace project and your post has also answered my questions. Thanks again JohnAbbot.

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matburton
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Re: I'm new here - n00b questions

Post by matburton » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:01 am

Thanks for the detailed reply Jon! Sorry for my slow reply and sorry you had to reply twice :o
Essentially the current rights holders grant JASPP distribution rights.
Ah! Understood. Does that dictate what format software can be released in? I notice many titles use JFD but some like Zool and Wolfenstein are hard disk installs. Is that due to multiple publishers?
JFD's are the original dumps with disc protection intact, warts and all.
It contains a 1772 FDC emulator for APD files, a VMM for A-series emulation and an ARM3 JIT so code runs on the latest ARM instruction revisions.
Sweet! That makes ADFFS + JFD more like SPS' IPF and WHDLoad rolled in to one! Colour me impressed!

For anyone else reading WHDLoad (or JST) uses slaves which typically patch floppy images which can't express copy protection. Those patches typically eliminate copy protection checks, disk swapping and add fixes for compatibility with other setups.
I don't think Fire & Ice works with APD
Does that mean that JFD is the superior preservation format which replaces APD?
Lotus Turbo Challenge 2 has disc protection, so will not work as ADF.
Yes it was the very first disk I dumped and noticed track 79 seemed to have a bad CRC.
It also has XLock (c) Daniel Simms, is the copy protection in this case just a bad CRC!
I'm not aware of any APD conversion tools, shouldn't be too hard to code one though.
Yes, in !ADFFS.!Structure
Thanks! Would it be OK if I were to have a stab at making such converters? It'll take me many months due to limited time and having a lot to learn, but it feels like something I could realistically contribute (I promise nothing though!)

Really I want to allow people to 'save' degraded original media by re-writing something that's as close to original as possible, and to let those without hard drives use original software from floppy emulators, or even real media. I for one had a sad number of mouldy or scraped disks that need attention.

JonAbbott
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Re: I'm new here - n00b questions

Post by JonAbbott » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:19 pm

matburton wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:01 am
Does that dictate what format software can be released in? I notice many titles use JFD but some like Zool and Wolfenstein are hard disk installs. Is that due to multiple publishers?
Original floppies are imaged to JFD files, Zool and Wolfenstein were both modified from their original. In the case of Wolfenstein where I have the source code, I made quite a few code changes, adding missing sound samples, fixing issues with the FM emulation and adding the red screen fade when you're shot.
matburton wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:01 am
Does that mean that JFD is the superior preservation format which replaces APD?
JFD and APD serve different purposed. JFD's are aimed at emulating ADFS' responses to disc operations where APD is aimed at full floppy emulation.
matburton wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:01 am
Lotus Turbo Challenge 2 has disc protection, so will not work as ADF.
Yes it was the very first disk I dumped and noticed track 79 seemed to have a bad CRC.
It also has XLock (c) Daniel Simms, is the copy protection in this case just a bad CRC!
I don't have the details to hand, from memory XLock does a bit more than just check for a bad CRC. I'll check my notes later to confirm what it does.
matburton wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:01 am
Would it be OK if I were to have a stab at making such converters? It'll take me many months due to limited time and having a lot to learn, but it feels like something I could realistically contribute
Of course, ADFFS isn't suitable for machines with less than 4mb of RAM, so converters are useful for folk that want to use hardware floppy emulators.

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